The Deepdive
Join Allen and Ida as they dive deep into the world of tech, unpacking the latest trends, innovations, and disruptions in an engaging, thought-provoking conversation. Whether you’re a tech enthusiast or just curious about how technology shapes our world, The Deepdive is your go-to podcast for insightful analysis and passionate discussion.
Tune in for fresh perspectives, dynamic debates, and the tech talk you didn’t know you needed!
The Deepdive
Mobile Photo Editing: AI Magic Beyond Filters
Unlock the power of mobile photo editing on your smartphone! We go beyond simple filters to explore cutting-edge AI photo editing tools that are changing the game.
Discover how apps like Lightroom Mobile, Snapseed, and Affinity Photo bring professional-grade power to your fingertips. Learn about the convenience of mobile workflows for photographers and content creators.
But it's not all sunshine and perfect pixels! We dive into the controversy around cloud storage (Adobe Creative Cloud, Google Photos) and subscription models for your irreplaceable RAW files. What happens when your photos are in someone else's cloud?
The biggest game-changer? AI photo editing! We discuss tools like Google's Magic Editor and how they allow you to erase objects, reposition subjects, and even generate new elements. This blurs the lines between photography and digital art, raising critical questions about authenticity and ethics in AI imagery.
Join the conversation: How do you balance enhancement vs. fabrication with AI? What does photography mean to you in this new era?
Leave your thoughts in the comments and subscribe for more tech updates and reviews.
The best camera is the one you have with you. You probably heard that quote right From Chase Jarvis.
Speaker 2:Classic.
Speaker 1:And it's just so true these days. I mean, our phones are practically glued to us, the cameras are amazing and we're all snapping pictures constantly.
Speaker 2:Every single day, yeah.
Speaker 1:So today we're doing a deep dive into something pretty much all of us do, maybe without even thinking too hard about it mobile photo editing Right, but even thinking too hard about it. Mobile photo editing Right, but we're going way beyond just slapping on a quick filter.
Speaker 2:That's right. Our mission today really is to unpack this whole powerful and sometimes let's be honest kind of controversial world of editing photos on your phone or tablet.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:We'll look at how much control you actually have, what this cutting edge AI can do now which is kind of wild and maybe ask if the old rules of photography even matter when tech moves this fast. This deep dive. It's really designed to give you the insights you need to navigate all this change. Make good choices about how you handle your photos on the go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're talking convenience versus control. That's a big one. The rise of AI, which is just exploding, and some genuinely tinderboxes issues around what actually happens to your photos when they go up into the cloud it's a lot to think about.
Speaker 2:It really is A fascinating set of choices. Maybe frustrating sometimes, too, that everyone with a smartphone camera faces now.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's unpack this. So let's start right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Why would anyone especially maybe someone who takes photography kind of seriously want to edit on their phone or tablet?
Speaker 2:Isn't the common wisdom? Still like a big, powerful desktop computer? Well, yeah, that's a traditional way, but convenience is a massive driver here.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:But it's more than just being lazy, you know, it's that immediate gratification you get a great shot to share it.
Speaker 1:Maybe just a preview on instagram, facebook, whatever right now that immediacy that speed can be absolutely crucial sometimes I can totally see that like imagine you're a photojournalist or you're covering a big event like the pga championship they mentioned, or even just a local sports game, getting those images out fast different it dramatically boosts their impact, their relevance. It's not just nice For some jobs, it's essential.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and for a lot of us, honestly, it's just that personal thing You're out shooting. You want that quick confirmation. Did I get it? Does it look okay?
Speaker 1:That feedback loop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that immediate feedback helps you adjust right there in the moment. And all of this kind of feeds into what we call a mobile workflow.
Speaker 1:Okay, mobile workflow, so that's like processing managing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, managing your photos on the go, maybe even backing them up from your memory cards right there in the field. It's interesting because, like one source said, it can be both limiting and liberating Kind of a paradox.
Speaker 1:Okay. So if you're going to do this seriously, not just, you know, filtering a selfie, what hardware do you actually need?
Speaker 2:Good question. First off, the device itself A phone or tablet with decent storage, think maybe 128 gigs or more, like an iPhone 7 Plus or an iPad Pro 9.7 inch. Those were examples given.
Speaker 1:Right Storage is key.
Speaker 2:High storage on the device is important for working on stuff temporarily, but and this is really important don't rely on just your phone or tablet for permanent storage. That's asking for trouble.
Speaker 1:Definitely heard horror stories there. So okay, raw files. Those are the big high quality ones, right Unprocessed. How do you get those onto your phone? It's not always straightforward.
Speaker 2:No, not always. For a proper raw workflow you often need a card reader, Something like the Apple USB 3 Lightning to SD card reader was mentioned. That gets those big files across.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, if you're just dealing with JPEGs. Sometimes the camera's own Wi-Fi connection can do the job and his own Wi-Fi connection can do the job. And then the apps what are people actually using? Right? The software? There's a whole bunch. Adobe Lightroom Mobile is kind of the big one for many pros doing mobile stuff, but you've also got really powerful options like Snapseed, which is super popular. Affinity Photo, especially on the iPad, is a beast Right, and honestly, even the built-in photos app on iOS since iOS 10, apparently has gotten surprisingly good, even with raw files for basic edits.
Speaker 1:Okay, now let's wade into maybe the first big controversial area, that Tinderbox topic. You mentioned Adobe, lightroom. Ah, yes, adobe For years. Lightroom was it right? Right, the standard, but they really stirred things up recently.
Speaker 2:Well, they absolutely did big time standard, but they really stirred things up recently. Well, they absolutely did Big time. They basically shifted focus hard towards what they call the all new Lightroom CC, which is essentially Lightroom mobile but running on your desktop too, OK, so the mobile version kind of took over. Pretty much Now. Lightroom Classic CC, the one everyone was used to. It still exists for now, but the general feeling is it's kind of temporary. You know that eventually they'll phase it out and push everyone onto this new cloud based system.
Speaker 1:And that's where the controversy kicks in, right. This idea of storing your original massive raw files up in Adobe's cloud.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's the core of it.
Speaker 1:What are the supposed benefits and what are people really worried about?
Speaker 2:Well, adobe pushes the seamless integration angle Edit on your phone, pick it up on your tablet, finish on your desktop, all synced automatically.
Speaker 1:Sounds great right, sounds convenient, yeah.
Speaker 2:But the real world problems are pretty significant for a lot of photographers. First, raw files are huge. The example given was 450 shots for a time lapse that could be nearly 40 gigabytes. Wow, given was 450 shots for a time lapse that could be nearly 40 gigabytes. Wow, and the irony is this cloud thing that promises freedom often ties you to your slowest link, your home internet upload speed ah, yeah, uploading takes forever one source tested it 30 raw files took half an hour to upload.
Speaker 2:On a typical connection that's. That's not exactly seamless convenience for large shoots.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Plus and this is crucial Adobe doesn't give you unlimited cloud storage. Once you get into terabytes of photos, which serious photographers do, it starts getting very expensive very quickly.
Speaker 1:And this isn't just hypothetical worry, right, people have actually run into problems. There was that user story, bill Albert.
Speaker 2:Right. That was a really concerning example. He reported losing three days worth of raw images. He ended up only with DNG files after using a specific Lightroom CC Plus classic workflow while traveling.
Speaker 1:Ouch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Now the specifics of how that happened in his workflow might be complex, but the outcome was losing original raws. And that just throws up this huge question for you, the user what's the actual cost of this convenience, especially when the system is maybe still kind of working out kinks? We're talking about irreplaceable photos here.
Speaker 1:That really hits home. It becomes a trust issue, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You're trusting your originals to a system you don't fully control. That's maybe still evolving.
Speaker 1:And it's not just the cloud storage, is it the whole business model shift Subscriptions. People aren't thrilled about that either.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not. Moving away from perpetual licenses, where you bought the software once and owned it, to mandatory subscriptions has rubbed a lot of users the wrong way. They feel kind of locked in paying forever. And you know what? This has opened up a huge door for competitors, companies like Skylum with their Luminar software and Sariv with Affinity Photo. They're jumping right into that gap. How?
Speaker 1:so.
Speaker 2:They're offering powerful editing software with perpetual licenses. Buy it once, keep it. It's a direct appeal to photographers who are fed up with Adobe's subscription model. They're actively trying to grab those users.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. So okay, let's say you do decide to go with Adobe's cloud system.
Speaker 2:How does the file management actually work? Where do your photos physically live? Okay, so you import photos onto your phone or tablet. They go into your device's photo library first, then you import them into Lightroom Mobile. When you connect to the internet, lightroom Mobile uploads the full raw files to Adobe's cloud.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they're synced up there.
Speaker 2:Right and once they're confirmed, synced to the cloud, you can delete them from your phone or tablet to save space.
Speaker 1:Ah, but that sounds scary. Deleting the only local copy.
Speaker 2:That's exactly it. That's the scary part for many. You're putting all your trust in the cloud copy. Now there is a clever workaround mentioned for people still using Lightroom Classic.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, what's that?
Speaker 2:Once the raw files sync down from the cloud into your Lightroom Classic catalog on your computer, you can then move those Raws to your local hard drive.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then you can tell Lightroom to delete them from the cloud storage to free up that expensive Adobe Cloud Space. You still keep access to them everywhere via what are called smart previews in your synced collections. Those are smaller, editable proxy files that don't eat up your cloud quota.
Speaker 1:So you get local backup and save cloud space.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It allows for something closer to that true 3-2-1 backup rule. You know, three copies, two media types, one off site with less effort, at least until you hit those smart preview limits or whatever. It's a workaround, but it shows the hoops people jump through.
Speaker 1:Wow Okay, from file management headaches to cloud worries, it's clear convenience isn't always simple. But what if convenience brought something else entirely, something revolutionary, maybe even reality bending? Let's talk AI.
Speaker 2:Ah, the AI revolution.
Speaker 1:yeah, we saw Android 16 boosting its camera and media stuff, including AI-powered photo editing suggestions popping up right in Google Photos.
Speaker 2:And this is where things get really interesting, especially with phones like the Google Pixel 9 Pro. Okay, really interesting, especially with phones like the Google Pixel 9 Pro. Okay, the word is. The real leap with the Pixel 9 Pro isn't so much the camera hardware itself that's apparently pretty similar to the last one, right, it's all about the powerful new generative AI tools they've added to something called the Magic Editor. This isn't just a little tweak, it's a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 1:Okay, so generative AI that sounds significant. Are there different kinds of AI tools we're talking about here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, broadly two types. First, you've got the stuff that happens right there on your device. Uses machine learning. No internet needed. Things like action, blur, long exposure effects, even that neat add me feature where it uses augmented reality to pop you into a photo you just took of your friends Practical enhancements basically.
Speaker 1:Okay, useful tricks.
Speaker 2:Right. But then you have the cloud-based generative AI. This needs an internet connection, needs your photos backed up to the cloud, usually Google Photos, and this is where the magic editor does its most dramatic stuff.
Speaker 1:And this is the stuff that people say is maybe beyond photography.
Speaker 2:That's the phrase. Yeah, because its capabilities are just well staggering. It can erase really complex things from the foreground seamlessly. It can move your main subject around in the picture, yet like slide them over. Yeah, and here's the kicker it can generate objects out of thin air. Add an like slide them over. Yeah, and here's the kicker it can generate objects out of thin air. Add an airplane to an empty sky. Put chairs in a field of tall grass where there were none.
Speaker 1:Whoa. Okay, that is different.
Speaker 2:It signals this fundamental shift right from just capturing what was there to actively curating or even creating a scene. It's less a scene. It's less the best camera is the one you have with you and more the best editor can invent whatever wasn't there. And apparently it's much faster on the Pixel 9 than the Pixel 8, which just encourages plenty of experimentation. So it really forces you, the listener, to ask when does it stop being photography and start being digital art, more of something else?
Speaker 1:Those lines are getting incredibly blurry and that brings up a tricky point for, just you know, regular users trying to figure this stuff out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually getting to use these tools. It sounds a bit confusing.
Speaker 2:It really can be.
Speaker 1:Like the Pixel 9 Pro, comes with a year of free Google Gemini Live, but then it's a subscription and while the photo AI stuff on the Pixel isn't yet subscription locked, it feels like a sign Maybe.
Speaker 2:It certainly points that way, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then there's conflicting info about the Google Photos AI tools for everyone else. One source says they're now available to all Google Photos users, no subscription required, but then another review mentions needing a Google One subscription for unlimited saves for the AI-based Magic Editor features. Right, so what's the deal If you're just using Google Photos on your phone? Do you have to pay for this magic or not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's confusing, isn't it? It shows how fast these companies are changing their offers and tiers. The latest understanding seems to be there's likely a free tier that gives you some access maybe a limited number of saves per month for the really advanced regenerative stuff, okay, but for unlimited use of those powerful magic editor features, it looks like you generally do need a paid Google One subscription. Now that seems to be the direction.
Speaker 1:So check the fine print basically.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Always check the current Google policy, but the takeaway is don't expect all the AI magic to be free forever. Google Photos does offer tips, though, like layering AI with normal edits using the right selection tool tap brush circle and tweaking the strength slider. That helps you control the results a bit more.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, like it or not, ai is definitely here to stay in photography.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. It's a massive trend and its value to you, the user, will be directly related to your tolerance of generative AI technology. It's powerful, it's challenging norms and it's a choice you have to make about how you want to create and edit your images.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we've talked AI magic and controversy. Let's switch gears a bit back to something more fundamental, a choice photographers have had for way longer shooting in RAW.
Speaker 2:Yes, RAW versus JPEG the age-old debate.
Speaker 1:For anyone not deep into photography, can you just quickly explain what a RAW file actually is?
Speaker 2:Sure, think of a RAW file as, like the digital negative from your camera sensor, it's the RAW, unprocessed data. It contains way more information, more potential, than a standard JPEG file.
Speaker 1:Okay, more data means more editing flexibility.
Speaker 2:Exactly. You get all the ingredients before the camera's automatic chef start cooking things, applying sharpening, saturation, contrast. That's why RAW files often look kind of flat or boring and unsaturated straight out of the camera. The processing hasn't happened yet. You get to do it.
Speaker 1:And can you actually shoot RAW on most phones now, or is it still a special feature?
Speaker 2:It's getting more common. On Google pixels there's usually a RAW plus JPEG control setting you can turn on. Samsung Galaxy phones often have a RAW copies toggle hidden in their pro camera mode. For other Android phones, if the main camera app doesn't support it, you might need a third-party app, like ProCam X was mentioned, to capture RAW. So, yeah, you usually have to actively choose to shoot RAW.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've got your RAW files on your phone. What's it actually like editing them on a mobile device? Is it a decent experience compared to desktop?
Speaker 2:You know it's surprisingly capable these days Apps like Lightroom, mobile Snapseed, even Pixlr they handle RAW files pretty well. When you open a RAW file in one of these apps, you're essentially taking control before all that automatic phone processing kicks in. You get sliders for things like exposure, contrast, highlights, shadows, white balance, temp and tint saturation.
Speaker 1:So real detail control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, plus effects like clarity, dehaze, adding vignettes and even noise reduction adding vignettes and even noise reduction you really can dig in and fine-tune the image, pull details out of shadows or recover highlights in a way that's just impossible with a compressed JPEG.
Speaker 1:Okay, but here's the big question then, especially for you know, the average person, the hobbyist maybe Is all that extra effort shooting RAW, importing RAW, carefully editing RAW, is it actually worth it?
Speaker 2:Ah, the million dollar question.
Speaker 1:Because one source made a really interesting point. Often, after all that manual work on a RAW file, the final image looks strikingly similar to the JPEG the phone produced automatically in the first place. That can absolutely happen, yeah, so it really makes you wonder. For most people taking photos with their phones even people who care about good photos do you really need to bother with RAW, especially when the phone's automatic processing is already so good?
Speaker 2:It's a totally valid question and, honestly, for many, maybe even most, users, the answer might be no. The automatic processing on modern smartphones is incredibly sophisticated. It's designed to give you a punchy pleasing image instantly.
Speaker 1:Right, good enough is often pretty great.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And there's another layer here, a kind of background worry for some, especially Android users. It's this Google graveyard thing.
Speaker 1:I've heard about that. What's the connection here?
Speaker 2:Well, people on Reddit brought it up in relation to Snapseed. Google bought Snapseed years ago. It's a fantastic, powerful editor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great and free.
Speaker 2:Right, completely free with no upsells, which is amazing. But Google has a history of buying apps, kind of stopping active development or major updates, and then eventually either killing them off or just rolling some features into their main products, like Google Photos.
Speaker 1:Okay, I see.
Speaker 2:So users get nervous about investing time learning and building a workflow around an app like Snapseed, even for raw editing, If they worry Google might just abandon it down the line. It creates uncertainty. Snapseed is still very popular, but its future for updates isn't guaranteed.
Speaker 1:That definitely has another wrinkle to the. Is it worth it calculation Trust in the tools themselves?
Speaker 2:Workflow stability matters.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, we've covered a lot of ground here. We've gone from the simple convenience of editing on your phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that liberation.
Speaker 1:To navigating the stormy seas of Adobe's cloud and subscriptions.
Speaker 2:Definitely some rough waters there.
Speaker 1:Debated what even counts as photography anymore with generative AI. That's a big one.
Speaker 2:And kind of questioned if going full raw on mobile is always the best use of time for you, the end user.
Speaker 1:It really highlights how much incredible power you have right there in your pocket now, yeah, but also the critical choices, the tradeoffs that come bundled with that power. You know choosing your workflow, deciding where your photos live, figuring out your comfort level with AI. These aren't small decisions. They really shape your pictures and how your digital memories get handled.
Speaker 2:So maybe a final thought for everyone listening as you take your next picture with your phone, just consider this In a world where AI can conjure up a perfect sunset or make an annoying tourist vanish with a tap, how important is it to you that your final image reflects only what your camera actually saw, or are you ready to embrace the magic, whether it feels real or completely artificial?
